Thursday, March 23, 2006

Ruminations On Jizya

I like to read the muslim forums, particularly the Aussie ones. I like to get other perspectives, so I also read the catholic and other christian ones, too. I can't cope with the new-agey ones much. That is far too much moonbattery for even me.

As I was browsing, I came across an interesting thread in the MuslimVillage forum regarding a segment on TodayTonight a few weeks back. Unsurprisingly, TT doesn't have a transcript of this particular segment on their site, so you'll have to bear with me.

In a nutshell, it features a fellow up in Queensland on disability benefits with two wives, both on single parent's benefits. He sees nothing wrong with what he's doing, as his wives were both married to him in the local mosque (not at the same time) and therefore recognised in Islam even though they may not be legally recognised under Australian law. (Notwithstanding bigamy/polygamy being illegal in this country, of course). It gets better when it appears that both the wives are in separate houses supplied by the housing commission, and these are like hen's teeth to get into.

The question posed on the forum was: is it okay for this fellow to do this even though the wives are not recognised by the law? (Please note that the initial post claims that the man had 4 wives. The TT episode I saw had the fellow with 2 wives.)

My response would be: As a muslim, yes he can do this. He can claim all the benefits he can get his paws on, so long as his wives are recognised by Allah and under sharia, then he can sleep easy knowing his wives are (relatively) comfortably provided for.

Why do I say this when the views from the aussie muslims are:

First of all he has obviously lied and committed a sin, secondly he would be earning income that would be haraam if his wife were to claim single parent pension, which is income meant for single mothers.. but would he committing adultery because he divorced his wife in legal terms?

cheeaaatinggggggggg the systemmmmmmmm

how on earth can he afford it.

Shame on them all!

Islam preaches against extra-marital relationships, and now, because of people like this, Muslims are being accused of having relations outside matrimony. Because this is how the situation appears to outsiders (the goverment, non-Muslims etc)

These quotes are not all the comments, but they give a good summation of the confusion amongst the younger muslims here. No wonder they are disaffected and get upset when they see their religion being brought down by some bloke who claims he's a good aussie who can do whatever he likes. After all, it's a free country. Therefore, if he wants to have 2 wives and keep them breeding, he's within his rights to do so. It's the muslim way. He's getting his jizya so he's got no problems. (One of the wives was caught on camera talking about having kids until she's too old. She also got upset at someone suggesting that she was set because the government would feed, educate and shelter her kids!)

If we look at Sura 9, we find verse 29:
009.029 Fight those who believe not in God nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by God and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

I guess the ambiguity comes in when you consider what is meant by the word "fight." Is it on the battlefield, or something more subtle.

However, that is ultimately irrelevant, as jizya is basically a poll tax. It is for christians and jews to pay to muslims. It is designed to subjugate them.

Welfare in the form of government handouts is acceptable as Imam Ibrahim Desai says:
Welfare ok? When my husband was student (now works), we joined Welfare. We live with in-laws, father works - middle-class. Someone told me we cannot accept welfare. Is this true?

What must I do? When my husband was student (now works), we joined Welfare. It provides some food and medical. We live with in-laws, father works - middle-class. Someone told me we cannot accept welfare, it must go to more needy people. Is this true? Is welfare like zakat? Is medical insurance ok? Is financial aid from govt ok to accept, even if not poor? It will be used for books, clothes etc. Should I pay it back?

1. We do not know the policy of the welfare organisation and hence our response will be a general one. Your family used to receive welfare assistance when your husband was a student. According to our understanding, he had no source of income at that stage. If the policy of the welfare is to provide assistance only to the unemployed or to students, then it will not be appropriate to continue receiving aid from the welfare as your husband is now employed. If that is not the policy of the welfare, and it provides general assistance to the poor and needy, then it will be appropriate to continue receiving assistance only according to the need.
If the salary of your husband suffices in fulfilling all the basic needs of the family, then it will be incorrect to receive assistance from the welfare.

2. It is not permissible to take our medical aid insurance.

3. It is permissible to receive government assistance even if one is not poor.

and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best

Mufti Ebrahim Desai

(emphasis added)

The world is divided into Dar ul Islam and Dar ul Harb. The house of Islam and the House of War. That's pretty self-evident, but maybe not.

There are plenty of muslims who believe that the jizya is only 5% of a man's wage, and only men have to pay it. That may be the theory, but in practice, it's not quite that simple. Speak to any christians you know who come from countries with a muslim majority.

It's not only the jizya which often exceeds 5%, but also the prohibition on building or repairing houses of worship (churches and synagogues), the prohibition on preaching a religion other than Islam.

If we look at the case in the media at the moment of an apostate muslim in Afghanistan, who is facing the death penalty:

Mr Rahman is being prosecuted for an attack on Islam, the punishment for which, under the draft constitution established in 2004, is death.

“The Attorney-General is emphasising he should be hung,” Judge Alhaj Ansarullah Mawlawy Zada, who will be trying his case, told The Times. “It is a crime to convert to Christianity from Islam. He is teasing and insulting his family by converting. In your country (Britain) two women can marry; that is very strange. In this country we have the perfect constitution, it is Islamic law and it is illegal to be a Christian and it should be punished.”

The prosecutor, Abdul Wasi, has said that he would drop charges if Mr Rahman converted back to Islam, but he has so far refused to do so.

“He would be forgiven if he changed back, but he said he was a Christian and would always remain one . . . We are Muslims and becoming a Christian is against our laws. He must get the death penalty.” In the first hearing of Mr Rahman’s case, Judge Zada, the head of the Primary Court, said that a verdict would be reached within two months.

and compare it with muslims living in Dar ul Harb.

So, yes, Mohammed in Queensland is doing fine. He is living according to Islamic laws. He does not recognise or accept the Australian laws as being above sharia, he is living in a state of ongoing war against the infidels - by accepting welfare payments, he is ensuring that his wives are supported, and it's not costing him personally! He gets to drain the coffers of those who would fight against Islam, and still participate in the advancing the cause of the Umma.

He is a Good Muslim.

One last note regarding the treatment of non-muslims in muslim lands: While we have all heard 2.256 There is no compulsion in religion.

How many hear the full verse? 2.256 There is no compulsion in religion. The right direction is henceforth distinct from error. And he who rejecteth false deities and believeth in Allah hath grasped a firm handhold which will never break. Allah is Hearer, Knower.

I do feel for the moderate muslims out there amongst the infidels. Especially the young ones. There is so much that they don't see, and as ever it's the young who pay the highest price.

(She says from the ripe old age of nearly 40!)


At 10:06 PM, Blogger Bill Cooper said...

I love your research Nilk, I sometimes look at askan Iman, it never ceases to interest me. The different threads you string together often has me envious of your skill and hard work.

At 10:44 PM, Blogger Caz said...

Just a few small problems with all of this, not the least of which: why not write a post about the hundreds of millionaires with habour side views in Sydney who, quite legitimately, and sometimes illegitimately, receive welfare in the form of family payments, childcare rebates, spouse rebate, tax free for super paid in the wife's name, and on & on & on it goes.

Then you could move onto the hundreds of thousands of non-millionaire households, with ample money to provide for their families, who also receive all of those taxpayer funded financial transfers.

You both bolded & underlined the statement, attributed as advise to and from a Muslim:

"It is permissible to receive government assistance even if one is not poor."

OMG - that's an Australian mantra!!! Even more so in the last couple of decades, and the demands, of which we can read about in the MSM on an almost daily basis, continue to become louder, and bigger, and more outrageous.

On this basis alone, Muslims are very well integrated in Oz!

On the matter of the man & his two wives, well, it may be unpalitable, but there are far too many men, from all backgrounds, who fail to support their children financially, to be pointing the finger at any one example, and this example is nothing new - it's all been done before.

Many other men not supporting their children also have children to different women as well. This Muslim chap just happens to be on good terms with both of his wives, so I guess that is one distinction.

Other than the religion of the people involved in the story, there is nothing notable about what they are doing. Other Australians do exactly the same, just minus the religious sanction.

I can't even get a tiny bit riled up by this, otherwise I'd have to get myself in a knot over half the people in the country.

(Oh, and let's not forget those self funded, wealthy retirees, who constantly write into the financial columns wanting advice on how to rearrange their multi-million dollar assets so that they can get a part or full pension. Now THAT is WTF? Never ceases to rile me - wouldn't you just be happy & grateful to have lots of assets & money?)

At 9:20 AM, Blogger Two Passports said...

I find it a concern that Muslims disregard the law of their 'adopted' country, like Abu Hamza, who would not stand up in a British court becasue he did not recognise it under Sharia Law (however, he has been perfectly happy to take the piss and claim benefits for many years). When I went to Turkey and was travelling in small villages I always made sure my legs and arms were covered etc.

At 1:17 PM, Blogger Nilk said...

I know where you are coming from Caz - these days there are far too many men and women who have no concept of either responsibility or consequences.

The advent of no-fault divorce meant a lot of marriages broke down, and we are living in a society that encourages excess without regard for cost.

There has also been a huge breakdown in the old community networks. (Okay, it's one of my pet themes).

That's one side of it.

But with this fellow in Queensland, and with people like Abdul Nacer Benbrika feeling quite comfortable with taking from the country while not giving anything back, it is a further concern.

Benbrika has been in the country for nearly 20 years and has never worked a solid day's work. His wife likewise doesn't work.

We can also take as an example. He used to work, went off on disability due to stress and is still incapable of working.

He's not incapable of getting his face on the telly every time someone wants to talk about muslims, however.

We have a lot of things that need fixing in this country.

The excise on fuel, stamp duty and punitive maintenance regulations (which are apparently being dealt with as we speak). Political correctness and thought police running amok.

The State taking over the role of parenting, then blaming the parents when it doesn't quite work out.

With these for starters, we also have a subset of people who live in this country but have no wish to contribute to it. This particular subset also seems to belong to a culture that does not wish to become a part of the main culture.

At 1:27 PM, Blogger Nilk said...

Bum. Sorry - forgot to close the tag. The link if for a blog with plenty of info on Keysar Trad. Just in case you didn't recognise him.

At 5:45 PM, Blogger Caz said...

Nilk - certainly take your point about his "inability" to work - ever. Yes, if he and his wives were back in the old country they would not have the option of being on a permanent holiday.

Most migrants to our country are so happy to be here that they work extra hard to take advantage of the opportunities.

Using one's religious / political / cultural belief system (and Islam combines the three) to justify sitting on one's bum, at the expense of Oz tax payers, is a novel and unwelcome development.

Unfortunately, they would look around and think nothing of it, since too many Aussies are setting their own bad example, just not propped up by religion or ideology; mere intellectual & physical laziness, and a belief that that society "owes" them something is the only prop Aussies use. :-)

At 8:18 PM, Anonymous meredith said...

I think there is a bad danger of "banning" ourselves into the Darkages just so islamists cannot use our own lax or free examples as permission to rip and manipulate our laws and society.

People talk of banning gay marriage so islamists can's use it as a precendent for poly, shutting down immagration, just to keep islam out etc

What ever we may think of gay marriage/dole bludging or immagration, to start banning our alternatives is dangerous. We ban one thing say gay marriages then we could have to ban gay preists, alter legislation around will making, worry about child laws in divorce etc. Anything islam can use it will. Poly could liken to share houseing, joint bill paying, shared custody of kids, people in open marriages... anything.

Regaredless of our own personal judgements on these variations from the norm, we should stand up for the rights we have given ourselves and pinpoint islam as the aggressor it is.

This is our homeland not islams well sort our own probs out on our own terms of which islam is the most urgent atm.


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