RWDB logic vs Lefty moonbattery.
One of the best rebuttals I've ever had the pleasure to read, from SFC McElroy of the US Army, to Infoshop.The initial blog post regards a reply by Steven Vincent's wife Lisa to Professor Juan Cole. I won't go into that here, because plenty of others have been doing that. I'm just perpetuating the words of a member of US armed forces to a dyed-in-the-wool left wing person.
Ms. Vincent is sadly misnformed (or perhaps on the payroll of PNAC and Karl Rove) and her attempt to shut down debate is pathetic.
It is quite remarkable that the unstated purpose of this war brings forth an oil war masquerading as an endless crusade against "terrorism."
It is sick how you warmonger chickenhawks keep sending our children to die. As Norman Mailer pointed out, Americanism as an ideology can be seen in the light of the apparent fabrications which lead to the police state which has come to pass.
The pro-Sharon neoconservative cabal leads our attention to a McCarthyism which threatens everything we hold dear. Our only hope is to stop neo-fascists (such as Ms. Vicent and her Zionist paymasters) by using (to quote Malcome X) "any means possible."
We will do anything we can to shut this site down, so you can stop spreading neocon lies.
Posted by: Infoshop at August 23, 2005 11:37 AM
Infoshop did get several replies before SFC McElroy weighed into the debate, but nothing as succint as this.
Enjoy!
"Infoshop":
You sniveling little twit. I just love the way you liberal moonbats bitch about "censorship" and "shutting down debate" whenever someone counters your agitprop with facts and opinions of their own. Hate to burst your bubble sweetpea, but the 1st Amendment is not exclusive to the leftist fringe.
And as for your views of the war on terrorism:
We all know how difficult it is for you socialist "activists" with your post-election trauma and the weekly trips to your therapist, but the rest of America is getting sick and tired of your pissing, moaning, and imbecilic regurgitations ie: "Bush Lied". If you removed your head from your ass and stopped fawning over bin Laden and repulsive simps like Michael Moore, you might get that clue you so desperately need.
Hell, if all we wanted was "oil" we could have bombed the Middle East back to the Stone Age, which would only set them back about 2 weeks, and simply TAKEN every single oil well in the region. Meanwhile, we're paying about 3 bucks a pop at the pump.
You've conveniently forgotten about the 3000 Americans who were slaughtered on September 11th 2001. That was a Pearl Harbor of the 21st Century, and all you can do is spew Norman Mailer quotes.
Included in the war on terror equation is Afghanistan, the success of which is virtually ignored by the leftist media. We kicked the crap out of the Taliban. That success is reflected in the fact that bin Laden and whatever little band of thugs he still has, are scurrying like cockroaches back and forth across the mountainous region between Pakistan and Afghanistan hiding in caves to avoid detection.
As for Iraq: Saddam Hussein filled hundreds of mass graves with men, women and children, and slaughtered 5000 Kurds with “non-existent” chemical weapons. He thumbed his nose at the pusillanimous UN for 12 years, while he continued to research, develop, and hide the evidence of his WMD program. In addition, Iraqi intelligence met with al Qadea operatives and he provided them with training camps in Northern Iraq.
"About the oil", my ass.
Let me give you first hand experience as to how the war is going: We are kicking the shit out of the terrorists to the extent that they are getting desperate, and it shows. The Iraqis are starting to wake up and realize that the future of their country depends on how much they assist in their own reconstruction and protection. We are getting an increasing number of people who walk up to American troops and literally take them to weapons caches and terrorist hiding places. If you've been paying attention, you'll note the numerous press reports of captures/kills of high ranking Zarqawi Lieutenants.
The Afghan and Iraqi people are constructing fledgling democracies, can vote, run for office, and speak freely for the first time in their existence. Nothing threatens Islamofascists more than a democracy.
Oh, and this little gem of yours is a real side-splitter:
"It is sick how you warmonger chickenhawks keep sending our children to die. As Norman Mailer pointed out, Americanism as an ideology can be seen in the light of the apparent fabrications which lead to the police state which has come to pass."
I'm no "chickenhawk", toots. I've served in 2 wars and a so-called "peace keeping mission"; Desert Storm, Operation Iraqi Freedom, and a stint in Clinton's wag-the-dog tactic in Bosnia.
We're fighting Islamofascist thugs who would gladly subject the entire planet (including you) to their oppressive theocracy. Before you hit the sack tonight you should get down on your knees and give thanks to whatever God you pray that we are out front making sure that doesn't happen.
You can thank Bubba Clinton for giving al Qaida the green light. His total indifference to the terrorist attacks on his watch; the first attack on the World Trade center, Khobar Towers, and the embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania went without retribution. He and algore (one word) were too busy using the Oval Office as their personal conduit for unethical, immoral and illegal activities. His Chinese/Indonesian friends Charlie Trie, John Huang, and James Riady bought the 1996 “election” in exchange for information on, among other items, classified satellite technology, He illegally obtained FBI files on political adversaries, and fired the Travel Office and threatened them with surveillance if they talked.
Oh, wait, he did have a response--he bombed Kosovo and an aspirin factory in Iraq. Abetted by lap-dog Janet Reno’s obstruction of justice, Clinton flushed the integrity of the Office as well as national security down the toilet, and not a peep out of you liberal shitbags.
Dedicated, brave Soldiers of the United States Army are fighting and sacrificing their lives in Iraq and Afghanistan so that ingrates like you won’t have to worry about another 3000 deaths on this soil.
You lefties are comprised of pseudo-anarchists, nihilists, and spineless MoveOn.org sycophants who would never let the facts get in the way of a good Bush bashing. The adults, thank God, are still in charge of the country. You ought to follow the lead, remove the nose rings and grow up.
Sergeant First Class Cheryl McElroy
US ARMY
Posted by: SFC McElroy US ARMY at August 23, 2005 01:51 PM
posted by Nilk @ 7:59 PM
4 Comments:
Once he'd relied on 3 insults without actually making a point I'm afraid I tuned out. But I'm sure he's handy with a gun!
But the logic of Sergeant First Class Cheryl McElroy is also flawed.
"but the rest of America is getting sick and tired of your pissing, moaning, and imbecilic regurgitations"
According to the latest opinion poles, Bush's popularity is going down hill so perhaps the bitching and moaning is having an impact.
"Included in the war on terror equation is Afghanistan, the success of which is virtually ignored by the leftist media. We kicked the crap out of the Taliban."
Most of the lefties I know supported the invasion of Afghanistan, in fact, they think it didn't happen soon enough. Bush's main aim was not to destroy the Taliban but to catch Bin Laden, the destruction of the Taliban and the installation of a democracy were both added after thoughts.
If the Taliban had handed Bin Laden over straight away, they would still be in power. Still torturing women, still having public executions.
The fact is they failed to catch Bin Laden and failed to fully eradicate the Taliban scum. Maybe if they hadn't been distracted by Iraq Afghanistan would now be peaceful.
Afghanistan is now pumping out vast loads of heroin that is going to kill a lot of westerners, don't forget that.
"You can thank Bubba Clinton for giving al Qaida the green light. His total indifference to the terrorist attacks on his watch; the first attack on the World Trade center, Khobar Towers, and the embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania went without retribution."
It was a different world back then, it would have been impossible for Clinton to justify an invasion of Afghanistan or Iraq; just as it was impossible for Bush to justify the same things. I'm not saying it was right for Clinton to do nothing, it was just politically impossible.
It wasn't until September 11 that Bush's position as president was solidified. The average American hated him until that moment; don't forget he was elected by a minority of Americans.
"His Chinese/Indonesian friends Charlie Trie, John Huang, and James Riady bought the 1996 “election” in exchange for information on, among other items, classified satellite technology, He illegally obtained FBI files on political adversaries, and fired the Travel Office and threatened them with surveillance if they talked."
This is black helicopter stuff, where is her evidence.
Chris, I agree that she's made some generalisations, particularly "the rest of America".
I know lefties from the States who were against the against the invasion of Afghanistan.
Regarding the Taliban's reknowned esteem for women, yes, they would still be at it. But maybe, the MSM might have given the situation a higher profile. We can play guessing games all day on this one.
We will never be able to completely eradicate the scum, Chris. They are like rabbits. Myxo did a great job decades ago, but they developed immunity. Then we had the *cough*accidental release of the calicivirus, which also did a great job, but they are still hanging in there.
We'er dealing with people of a fanatical bent. They don't appear to have any critical thinking skills, they suffer from a religion that does not allow criticism or doubt.
Say what you will about the christian/judeo doctrines, there is acceptance of human fallibility and doubt.
Indeed, doubt is (in my experience) welcomed by the Catholic faith, as it is seen as a tool for reaffirming or consolidation your faith in God. Which is probably a good thing for me.
I will fess up to not following Clinton closely, as I was too busy partying over those years. I never gave it much more than a cursory glance.
And one question about GW Bush that I've always wanted to ask:
If Dubya is such a complete (drongo/dropkick/nong/insert favourite word for nuf nuf here), then how on earth has he managed to get himself elected TWICE?
I don't mean to get offtrack here, Chris, but I need to do a bit more following up before I can get right into it.
bleh. Now I sound like a nufnuf myself!
The average American did not "hate" Bush before 9/11/01, even though he did not win a majority of the popular vote. It's a ridiculous idea and there's no evidence for it, though it may seem true to people in Pauline Kael type socially pre-purged settings. As I recall, though a majority did not always prefer Bush as presumptive future candidate in various polls, a majority liked him and often a majority approved of the job that he was doing. This is well known in the USA and I don't feel like digging links up about it.
The invasion of Afghanistan was about the pursuit of not just of Bin Laden but of Al Qaeda. Destruction of the Taliban was "added on" as it became clear that not only were they uncooperative versus Al Qaeda, but also they had partly merged with Al Qaeda and were ideologically in sync with Al Qaeda. Al Qaeda had set itself up there big-time. If the Taliban had handed Bin Laden over at the beginning, they would have been a different Taliban than they were, a different set of oppressive islamopuritans. Now we have embraced the idea that such things help breed terrorism, and we're fighting an ideological global war which includes the battle for women's rights, but we're waging it by various means. The left can shout "hypocrisy" all it wants about that variety, but that variety optimizes our capacity to fight and helps reduce the financial and human costs and risks, which is a strong ethical dimension of that variety. The left understands it as similar -- at least in the superficial way that the left "understands" things -- to that which the left does except that the left does it to much greater extremes. Witness the increasing leftist alliance with islamoterrorist forces, as they circle ever closer in a diabolical dance around a common bed. Well, George Galloway, Carlos the Jackal, etc., are already in that bed. And the left in fact harbors no dreams or plans of "reforming" their islamoterrorist allies' retrograde ideas about humanity, life, earth, or heaven. Oh, that's right, the left doesn't call them "terrorists," but instead "insurgents," and compares them with the Minutemen of the American Revolution. But the omnicide bombers are just a miniature version of that which the terrorists would like to unleash on civilization generally. And some, too many, on the left basically just want the gulags, in whatever form and under whatever name, to rise again.
Yes, Afghanistan's heroin production IS a problem. But it's also a demand-side problem. Better that than a whole nation and its government serving as a base of terrorist and destructionist war against civilization.
Many leftists, including ones whom I know, opposed the Afghanistan invasion. MoveOn.org's founding documents include a petition against any war, a petition begun soon after 9/11/01 and before the invasion of Afghanistan. (On the other hand, I do know one politically supercorrect socialist leftist who, almost whispering though nobody else was around, told me that he was glad after 9/11/01 that Bush had won.)
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